More Discussions On Wiki Content
Kevin Jones put some pages in the wiki. In the Minciu Sodas yahoogroup, a discussion span out of this:

Kevin in a message to LeeThorn:

This is a highly conceptual group; Buderer is among them. I think linking the big system thinkers with the practical, in the field entrepreneurs like yourself and Peter is something that should be done; it's not an either or proposition. To get them to see the value of plunging on ahead before they see the whole clearly, I am inserting your ideas in the middle of one of their conceptual frameworks, which is something a wiki allows you to do. To eliminate you out of the dialogue they will literally have to cut your ideas out of their conceptual framework. And since they are group that is conceptual they will most likely want to talk about whether they want to do that if they engage the concepts from that point of view. Since I am ccing the list that is linked to that wiki, I'm making that question explicit.

and to the group:

I put One Village's Profiles/JeffBuderer and PeterBurgess into a dialogue by asking them to describe how their approaches differ. After listening, I am not of a mind to make one of those shallow consensus at all costs statements like "oh I think you both are saying the same thing, just in different words."

In fact, I agree with them that they have have quite different approaches to international development.

Peter's is focused on the shortest and fastest path to effectiveness now while Jeff, seem to be focused on completing a holistic design before taking action. Both approaches have merit.

That's why I linked them both in this wiki related to the highly conceptual minciu sodas list. Some respectful dialogue needs to occur between doers and thinkers for the design to be truly sustainable, I think.

At least, that's what I'm attempting to foment here; linking the disparate forces involved in international development in ways that help all parties achieve their own ends while at the same time furthering the common good across sectors and approaches.

Franz Nahrada reacted:

Thanks for using the GlobalVillages Wiki!!

its good that this is becoming a repository of thoughts concerning the development of cities and villages in the information age which can help all of us develop their thoughts.

Anyway, I have to work out some hints to drop stuff at the right place to keep things coherent.

The main guideline and structural element of the wiki is the table of content.

The pages you put in the Wiki seem to me a bit misplaced.

This means not that the information is irrelevant, but that they should be linked differently.

Context is even more relevant than content here.

For example, I do not know why you link to the "EmergentPhenomena" page from Patterns (APatternLanguageForGlobalVillages). It almost seems like an ironic contradiction to me. I have understood that the content of EmergentPhenomena is almost an antithesis to the pattern concept.

That's fine with me and antithesis is always productive!!! But it should go to the right place. "Patterns" are "carefully crafted essays about particular problems and a kind of solution which can be imagined, intended and also graphically described."

So to conclude, I encourage you and all of us to not just dump links and information thehre, but make it relevant to the context of globalvillages.

Kevin responded: Franz, that is exactly the question I was trying to raise.

Can rapidly growing emergent phenomena mesh with, fit into the same taxonomy as, coexist conceptually with pattern language? Or does one form mitigate against the other? Though my action was not disrespectful, I was conscious of breaking the outline as it existed on the page, and I did it, knowing that in a wiki breaking is just an allowed for evolutionary stage, easily remedied once noticed. I did it that way in order to ask this question. What exactly does it mean to start from a pattern language framework? What is, by that decision, left out?

Specifically, how does an entrepreneurial approach of plunging ahead to rapidly try things and perhaps make mistakes and learn from the consequences and reactions to those actions and mistakes, and improve upon the succeeding generations of the actions have a place in this approach? Does the iterative dialogue with the market and the environment fit into a pattern language framework?

I will be glad to move material about emergent phenomena and the place of rapidly iterated entrepreneurial approaches somewhere else within the structure. Where would you suggest that it fits?

Franz responds: According to the TOC, to host such an antithesis, we would need to open a general discussion space about the values of intented patterns and the driving forces of development for cities and villages. I see great value in such "empirical" approaches although I do not see them as opposeed to "theoretical" ones. To brand phenomena as "emergent" does not mean they are without patterns. Everything has a pattern, and some of the market driven patterns might be more valuable than others.

There is another problem: the conceptual approach to GlobalVillages is trying to narrow down on a form of international development that is almost like an antithesis to the rapid urban growth in so'called "developing countries". I know that GlobalVillages are not "Emergent Phenomena" yet, and their mode of function has yet to be researched and improved. We know of many places with high intentions like Arcosanti or Tamera, where a npoble community spirit tried to lay out a sound pattern for sustainable development, but they did not take off. Today I watched my Arcosanti video again and heard Paolo Soleri complain that it would take just the equivalent of the costs one single airplane to build a model arcology like Arcosanti.

We are helpless if there is no good will from contributors that really want to improve our pattern language. EmergentPhenomena might give us hints of patterns that we might want to consider. So I just took the link out of patterns and I think the rest is up to you....

Another example:

PeterBurgess, BurgessNetwork and LeeThorn could be linked from here:


  • "- Some Networks - The people and organisations which are doing things important for Global Villages".
But please, try to define these people so that we can get a general idea why they are here.

Thank you all for working on common thoughtspaces and keeping them useful!


All content in this wiki is PublicDomain except as noted otherwise. Please be kind to our authors! changed: April 22, 2006